Wednesday, November 03, 2004

Values Voters & the Discussion of Moral Issues

I was about to respond to a post on David Schraub's blog The Debate Link, but I'm tired of writing all my good posts on other people's blogs. David is a self proclaimed Left-Centrist who does a pretty good job presenting rational left arguments.

In his blog, David says:

All of this, I think, only reaffirms my point though. The "moral values" issues probably have the least substantive discussion of any major campaign issue. You never see a real debate about gay marriage or abortion.

David is right. There really isn't a substantive discussion about these issues. Both sides draw their lines, quote their sound bites and try to get as many people on their side as possible.

This is because I believe that America is in the midst of a moral/legal cognitive dissonance on "values issues".

What do I mean?

I mean, there are moral issues in this country where what is accepted as normal and lawful does not match professed moral beliefs.

Let me explain...


There are many on the right who believe that marriage should be restricted to one man and one woman. A reasonable and traditional expectation. But the cold hard truth in America is, marriage has lost all meaning as an institution except as means for distributing property. My friends on the right will get fired up to pass laws prohibiting gay marriage, but are lackluster (legally speaking) about adultery, divorce, or cohabitation. I mean, if marriage is such a big deal that it must be "protected", then why not protect it from these things that also cause it to lose meaning.

This can also be illustrated through bigamy and polygamy. It is perfectly legal (and more or less socially acceptable) for a guy to sleep with three women, keep houses for them, have children with them, share property with them. BUT, if he marries more than one of them... THEN it becomes illegal.


The left has been adamant about protecting a "woman's right to choose". But at the same time, people are charged with murder, if they kill an unborn fetus. That is... unless they are a doctor... performing an abortion. If a woman is on her way to the clinic to abort her child and the fetus is shot on the trip over, is it murder? Legally speaking, it is. Why isn't the left working to make sure that anytime a fetus is killed, that it is legal?


I once had a blind date with a woman who told me that she was propositioned by an upper level executive. He offered to set her up with an apartment, monthly allowance, a car, all just for a few "visits" a month. Is that legal? I think something like that would be difficult to prosecute as prostitution. I mean, how is that different from a woman who moves in with a man?

What about women who use sex or the promise of sex to receive gifts?

A woman can be paid to have sex on camera. Is that prostitution? (in a legal sense)

Until both the left and the right come to terms with these moral/legal questions themselves, it is going to be exceedingly difficult for us to come to terms with them as a nation.


At November 4, 2004 at 8:16 PM, Blogger David Schraub said...

Haha, I'm touched by the sentiments. I agree with you that nobody, left or right, is really thinking hard on these issues (I'd say the side against the status quo--conservatives on abortion, liberals on gay marriage-- are probably closer to making substantive arguments, but neither is really doing much). The only problem, as I see it, is there is no incentive to start having these "substantive discussions." If you're a conservative, why bother getting into a messy and offputting discussion about the relative differences between divorce and gay marriage and all that, when you can continue to keep on asserting talking points and mobilize voters in perpetuity? I'm not convinced we'll ever see a real discussion on the issues, because the status quo party has an incentive to reduce everything to talking points, and the opposition party can only gain ground if it convinces voters to listen to long, intricate, nuanced discussions (something American voters are not particularly prone to do).

Anyone who can convince me this isn't hopeless, please do. I'm in desperate need of some cheery news.

At May 2, 2005 at 9:10 PM, Blogger Joel Gaines said...

Hard for me to leave this one alone.

Hot button issues have traditionally been seen as things to gloss over by people who have to appeal to the middle to get elected. Honestly, that is the basis of most of the complaints politically active conservatives have today. If you want to get elected, don't dare be solid on these issues. As someone who is deeply involved in politics, I can tell you that is changing - post 2004 election cycle.

Many more conservatives are stepping up and they are not afraid to speak their minds. That's why guys like John Mccain are getting such a hard time these days by fellow Republicans.

The Republican National Platform is a great starting point. It's about 98 or so pages of what it means to be a Republican. Surprisingly, many Republicans - aren't. Conservatism is only a fringe of the party when those on the left are allowed to stake out what the middle is. I think you'll see it become more centered as the voting base realizes they don't have to accept the status quo of the past 40 years.

My two cents - take it for what it is worth. :)

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